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   July 24, 2009

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   1 joseph said:
   

   The problem I see..and I work with schools, is that we expect every student to be a doctor when it is just not reality.
   We dumb down our systems to include everyone instead of having a system that allows different levels of learners.

   If want to fix it all we need to do is allow votech back into the systems and applaud those who choose jobs that come from those areas.

   Boy I could get longwinded here but I am responding from the phone

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   July 24, 2009

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   2 Molly said:
   

   We have had a system that rewarded teachers based on kids test performace in Kentucky for the past several years.

   So now kids can take standardized tests with the best of them…but don’t ask them to think much.

   SOME teachers only teach the test so they can get their school scores up so their school gets money.

   It just doesn’t work well.

   What was wrong with school when we did it?

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   July 24, 2009

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   3 Matt @ The Church of No People said:
   

   The problem is red tape. The teachers have extraordinary amounts of paperwork and tests to worry about, less time for teaching, and less flexibility to actually discipline kids. It’s a royal mess and the teachers’ hands are tied when it comes to actually teaching.

   It’s not that our classrooms are the problem. It’s the government giving out the tests which are so big and scary that the teachers only have time to teach the test, which is inevitably boring for the kids. So it’s a viscious cycle.

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   July 24, 2009

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   4 Theresa said:
   

   While I agree with what’s said above, I think it’s a matter of what happens at home. If I am interested in what my children learn, expect good grades and competent discussion on what they’ve learned while at school, the information is retained and the lessons are really learned.

   I cannot expect one person to stand in front of 25 or so children and reach every one of them. It’s MY job to go over the work, listen and follow progress not the government’s job to regulate it, applying more pressure and paperwork to already overworked educators.

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   July 24, 2009

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   5 Cherith said:
   

   I was home-schooled

   (haha, sorry that was not much of an opinion, but I had to say it!)

6. 
   
   

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   July 25, 2009

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   6 April said:
   

   Arrgh! That makes me angry. It isn’t new in Indiana, either, the idea of having to earn grant money with test scores. Then the problem is that the schools with the most behavioral problems, the least parental involvement, etc, also become the schools with the least support staff to help solve these problems! And what Molly said.

   In my opinion, the biggest problem facing schools is the breakdown of families. Parents who are too young or too busy to really parent. One, they aren’t instilling the importance of education in their child; two, they aren’t helping their child at home; and three, they aren’t teaching their child how to behave! Personally, I think that’s the worst one. Teachers have to be teachers AND parents. Somehow while getting kids up to the educational standards, doing tons of paperwork, and preparing for tests, they have to be teaching them how to interact with other human beings and what is an appropriate way to react to adverse situations, etc. This shouldn’t be their job. But, it becomes their job out of necessity when the kids’ behavior makes it impossible to teach, and there is no other adult in the room to take on that responsibility.

   And those other countries whose students score well? I don’t think it’s because they have some new revolutionary method of teaching. Rather, the parents place such a high importance on education that the kids work for it (Japan, Korea, etc). But those poor kids study non-stop from the time they are little. There’s gotta be a happy medium in there somewhere.

   Ok, I’ll be done. This is just a hot topic for me

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   July 25, 2009

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   7 Mark Herring said:
   

   Here’s a comment from a teacher in New Zealand, for what it’s worth.

   I thought your president was pretty smart! Doesn’t he realise that if you attach money to student’d test results then you’ll get more teachers cramming their students with stuff to score high in tests – which is best suited to having desks in rows?

   This idea, of performance pay, relies on the notion of every student and class operating from a level playing field. In other words, they have the same intellectual ability, they have the same supportive families and the same experience of learning in the classroom before! As if! They are all things that impact on student outcome and a teacher has NO influence on. Politically driven, populist dribble based on no shread of evidence from the real world.

   I see the education shifting, slowly, through the embeding of technology that changes teaching practice towards creativity, working together, skills based and teaching kids self efficacy. It IS happening. Don’t let populism based on ignorance slow the train down.

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   July 25, 2009

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   8 Pokinatcha said:
   

   They took prayer, the Bible & God out of the schools. They took discipline away from the teachers.

   The breakdown of the families hasn’t helped. I don’t think teachers should be held responsible for the performances of students if they aren’t getting the support from the parents at home. I know that’s a problem where I live.

   My kids aren’t in the public schools. So I really don’t keep up on it too much.

   I would like to see the government start taking some huge pay cuts instead of the teachers. They are already highly underpaid.

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   July 27, 2009

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   9 Tim Jahr said:
   

   With all due respect, I don’t think taking God out of the schools caused tests scores to go down. It’s certainly not a decision that I’m in favor of, but the other things mentioned here – apathetic parents, teaching-to-the-tests, etc. have WAY more to do with the decline than the sanctioned presence of God. After all, He’s still there anyway. And if that made the difference, there’d never be a problem in private schools or with home schooled children.

   On the test issue, I’m curious for the opinion of other teachers on here. I see the problems with the current system that others been mentioned here. But what would you advocate as an effective evaluation strategy? I had numerous teachers who were just collecting a paycheck and waiting for retirement, and there should’ve been some repurcussions for that. I’m just not sure how to establish such things without something like a test everyone takes.

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    July 27, 2009

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    10 Rosita said:
    

    Like most of the problems facing our society today, there is not easy answer or just one thing to blame.

    I agree with Tim that taking God out of school did not cause test scores to go down.

    Yes, parents need to be involved with the children’s learning. Of course, if we had public policy that supported families and jobs that paid a living wage, maybe parents could be more involved. Yes, there are some that just don’t care, but there are also even more who would like to be more involved, but just can’t because they have to work two jobs to just keep food on the table and a roof over thier children’s heads.

    Yes, too much is asked of teachers. They should be paid more, given more resources and support. However, they also need to be held accountable in some fashion that the children in their classes are learning. I too had a lot of teachers just collecting a check. One of mine even left in the middle of the school year when he reached is retirement date. Gave no notice. He was a Chemistry teacher, and they could not find a sub who knew about Chemistry. Too bad for those who headed off to college the next year.

    I would absolutely agree with the need for votech be be back in the schools and for stopping the dumbing down of the ciriculum. As a society, we really hold those who work with thier hands in low regard (until something breaks that is). That needs to change.

    Sorry, I could write for days on this.

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    July 28, 2009

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    11 Pokinatcha said:
    

    I do agree with you Tim.

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    August 6, 2009

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    12 holly said:
    

    I realize I’m a bit late on this debate, but I wanted to add my two cents, as a former high school teacher.

    The number one problem that I see in our schools today is the breakdown of families and parenting. Teachers can not be expected to reach each and every student and be not only their teacher, but their mentor, parent, counselor, coach, friend, etc. They have too much on their plate and if parents were doing the job that they were supposed to be doing and instilling value and respect for education and teachers you would see a change for the better. Teachers can no longer discipline for fear of being sued – I’ve seen it done and it’s not pretty.

    On the same note, there are far too many teachers that should not be teaching. For this I blame the teacher’s union. In no other job are you rewarded or protected in your job solely based on your years of experience and NOT your job performance. I’ve seen too many young, wonderful teachers lose their jobs because they have only taught a few years while outdated, bored, uncreative, “just getting a paycheck” teachers are retained. While I don’t necessarily advocate test scores to determine teacher performance there must be someway to reward them for a job well done. There is no reason why the should NOT be paid for their performance.

    I’m a huge supporter of public schools – I’m a product, my husband is a product and I’m a former public school teacher – I will use them as long as they are working and you can be sure that I will be involved in my children’s education. I wish more would do so. However, with that said, I believe that each parent should have the choice where to send their child and if they choose private they should receive a voucher to help cover their cost since they will ALWAYS be paying for public schools regardless of if they use the school or not (or even have school aged children).